Transcript 0:00 Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Honey and Hustle. In this episode, we are doing another crossover event. 0:08 I am teaming up with Brian Andrejko of the Just Get Started podcast, and we talk about how our newsletters fit into our creative businesses. I'm a service-based creator. 0:19 Brian is a consultant and strategist for sales pros, and we talk about why we started our newsletters, what the experience has been like working on Beehive, and what our goals are for our newsletters. 0:31 I want to apologize in advance. 0:33 We had a little bit of audio trouble with the recording software that I was not able to fix in post, but I do hope that you really enjoy this, you get something from it, and maybe it sparks some ideas for you and your newsletter. 0:46 All right, let's jump right in. How long have you been doing the podcast? I've been doing the podcast, it has been five years now, so since March of 2020. So I was a pandemic podcaster. What about you? [laughs] Yeah. 0:58 Well, eight, seven and a half years. I started in... I launched my first episode at the end of November 2017. This week I launch episode 457. That's insane. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. 1:10 I'm still in the, like, 100s, [laughs] which I'm fine with. I'm fine with. Yeah. Well, but it's interesting because, like, people always ask, "Oh, how do you keep it going?" 1:18 And I'm j- my big thing is always, and this kinda goes with, like, the newsletter stuff, it's just one at a time. Yeah. That's all I think about is, like, the next one. Yeah. And the next one. 1:27 I don't think about, oh my God, in five years I could have whatever number of... Doesn't matter. I can't think that far. 1:33 I only can think the, the next week or the next interview, and I think if people kept that mentality, it just makes it super easy. Yeah. You don't overwhelm yourself. Yeah. 1:42 No, I can agree with that, for sure, especially with the newsletter. People are like, "How do you do it?" I'm like, deadlines. 1:47 I know Monday and Thursday, sometimes Saturday, I need to have something out, and I just focus on those days one step at a time. Then after a while you look back and you're like, "Oh, okay. 1:57 Hundreds of things later, we're good." Yeah, so let's talk about the newsletter a little bit, 'cause I know that's, as we caught up before, obviously that's something we're both into. Yeah. 2:06 And you're a little further ahead. How many years you been doing the newsletter now? Not very long. I started my first one December 2023. Okay. So it's been about a year and a half on that one. Yeah. 2:16 So I'm about three months in. Four, I guess four months now, so 19 issues or something like that. Okay. So yeah, a little bit behind your pace. What, let me ask you this on the, on that, on the content piece. 2:28 Do you have a set schedule? Like, how do you stay consistent putting yours out? What's the process? Yeah. So for Please Hustle Responsibly, which is the companion newsletter to Honey and Hustle, we put out... 2:40 I say we, it's, it's me. I put it out Mondays and Thursdays. Okay. 2:44 And then I started maybe about six months, six to eight months in, I was like, okay, I wanna add a paid one that goes out on Saturday, but recently I blew that up and I was like, screw paid. It's all free. 2:56 If I want you to pay for something, I'm gonna make it a paid product. Yeah. 2:59 And so Saturdays is if I have something to say on a Saturday, then I'll post it, so that will get me to three times a week, but bare minimum, Mondays and Thursdays are my cadence. And the, what was it? 3:10 Hustle and Honey, you said? Honey and Hustle, yeah. [laughs] Honey and Hustle. Do you send that out consistently as well? Not anymore. So it's always been a seasonal show. Okay. 3:20 So right now we're prepping for the next season, and we've been s- recording some stuff for that, but also doing some pre-production for the other episodes, so we haven't really been putting out consistently since February. 3:30 So when you think about, is your process, I'm gonna write a newsletter issue, and I'm gonna sit down and do it in one full swoop? Or do you ideate and then go and edit and then create it? What's your process there? 3:46 Oh, that's a good question. So I didn't really have much of a process when I first started. It was just I know I need to put something out. [laughs] Yeah. I think now it's much more streamlined. 3:57 I have a Notion calendar where I keep ideas, like relative ideas, and I try to plan ahead. What can I match? What articles can I match with what moments? 4:07 So for example, this past week I wrote about Ryan Coogler because Sinners just came out, and I've been wanting to write about Ryan Coogler anyway, so it's just, okay, here's someone I wanna do a deep dive on. 4:17 Here's a cultural moment that I can attach it to. Like, how do we make stuff like that happen? So it feels on trend or, like, timely, but it still feels evergreen as well. 4:27 Someone can still read this in six months, and I would still be proud of that piece. 4:31 And for stuff like that, it requires a lot of research, like when I'm doing deep dives, so it can't just be like, oh, okay, this is going on Monday. I'm gonna start on Sunday. It just doesn't... It would not get done. 4:40 [laughs] It would just take all day. 4:42 So some stuff, like especially if I have it in the hopper, like it's an idea I know I wanna talk about at some point, as I come across things and, like, articles and things I think I wanna include, I'll put them in a Notion doc, and then when it's time I'll be like, okay, I have my research. 4:56 I have my idea. Let me create an outline, and then let me start writing. So that's typically the process right now, and that's been working pretty well. Let me go back. 5:05 I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a pin in that for a second, 'cause I should've asked you the question before, is why don't you share what your newsletter's about and maybe what type of content? 5:15 'Cause maybe that'll help us [laughs] go down the rabbit hole. Yeah, that's probably helpful, 'cause I get this too. 5:20 People are like, "Oh, you have a newsletter for your podcast, or are you just sharing podcast episodes in your newsletter?" Yeah. And for me, that answer is no. Do we share podcast episodes? Yes, absolutely. 5:30 Do we only share podcast episodes? No. Please Hustle Responsibly, to me, is an extension of, like, maybe my expertise as a podcast host. 5:40 It maybe lends itself to helping people understand why I am a person who is interested in talking directly with creators and business owners in North Carolina about their businesses and about their lifestyles that they've created through their businesses, and how they work with their community to create a positive impact. 5:58 A lot of the stuff that we talk about is breaking down creator economy news. Yes. What does that mean for the everyday creator? 6:04 Whether you're a side hustler part-time or you're a full-time creator, you're an in-house creator, and then also, like, the business side of things. So writing more editorial style content on creator businesses 6:17 and minority-owned businesses. So that's the basis of the newsletter. So Ryan Coogler, as you can see, is a creator, business owner of Proximity Media, and he's, I mean, an acclaimed filmmaker. What else can I say? 6:28 He's someone that a lot of people are familiar with, a lot of people would probably wanna emulate. So how can we bring that down to the everyday creator? What can you learn from this person that's gonna be relevant? 6:38 Yeah. So that's my approach to the newsletter, in addition to sharing my own experiences as a creative business owner, but Three times a week... I guess at least two times a week, Monday, Thursday, maybe a Saturday. 6:48 Is it similar content, or do they-- is there some expectation that you give your audience that, "Hey, on Mondays it's gonna be this, Thursday it's gonna be this"? They are just in for the rollercoaster of a ride. 6:58 I don't say [laughs] anything about any type of expectation. Sometimes I'll preview things. I'll be like, "PS, stick around for next week," or, "Stick around for Thursday. I'm gonna write about XYZ." 7:08 So give them a preview of what's to come. In terms of the type, I only write about creator economy news on Thursday, or I only share the podcast on Mondays. It just doesn't go like that. 7:17 It's a little more organic than that. Gotcha. And now you're using Beehiiv, right? I am, yeah. Okay. So what's your process of, again, talking about this ideation, 'cause I think this is so important. 7:28 To your point earlier, you can't just scramble and do this. I'm sure some people do it that way. But I've even found, like, I gotta get structured. 7:35 I try to be a couple weeks in ahead to batch these, 'cause I-- if I was, like, the week of, or this is due tomorrow, yeah, it'd be like 7:42 you're cramming for a test, which I did successfully, [laughs] I guess, to get through college. But, um, I don't know if that'd be good for the newsletter. 7:48 But anyways, how do you think about, like, going, taking it from Notion it's written in, and then do you do any critique in Beehiiv, additional customization or anything? 7:58 Or do you just have a same template you use all the time? So for Please Hustle Responsibly, I do wanna clarify, I also have two newsletters. 8:05 So for Please Hustle Responsibly, I have three main templates that I rotate between for, like, things that I'm writing. 8:13 I just recently created a guest post template, because I had my first guest post, so that was really exciting and fun. 8:19 And then I've had a couple of templates that I've created for just timely things that I wanna promote. 8:23 And typically, my templates just have rotating calls to action or a section dedicated to an ad, if I have an ad in my newsletter. 8:32 Um, and so that's been working really well, just having rotating calls to action within the templates and just having some really, what I like to think is cute design language that helps with the pacing of the newsletter, helps with the readability, and just helps with brand recognition when people are reading. 8:48 They're like, "Okay, I recognize this format. I like it. It's easy to scroll. I understand what's happening. I understand there's gonna be little nuggets in there." 8:56 So just chances for me to surprise and delight readers is really cool. I also created a template for my audio newsletters. 9:03 Every once in a while, I'll record myself reading something that I've written if it's a little on the longer side. 9:08 Because I send in the morning, so I guess my thought process was, okay, if I write something that's longer than, let's say, eight minutes, 10 minutes, right? 9:16 Somebody probably is gonna see that reading time, and they're gonna be like, "Yeah, I'll check this later." But if there's an audio version of it, they may say, "I'm commuting to work. Let me just turn on, 9:26 you know, the episode, and I'll just listen to it." And, uh, they'll get the same information. 9:29 And they can always check back to the actual article itself if they wanna click any of the hyperlinks to learn more or anything like that, so it's a win-win. And I've been enjoying that. 9:38 My audience has been enjoying that from what I can tell. Those are the ones that I rotate between. On Melanin MVP, which is a more women's sports newsletter, I have a couple different ones that I rotate on for that. 9:48 So I have a podcast with that. I have a podcast kind of template. I have a guest post template for that. Have a regular template when I'm just writing a solo situation. 9:58 And then I have, I think, one more template for that as well if I'm tackling, like, current women's sports headlines and things like that. 10:05 So I think having a couple rotating templates where your design language is really nailed and dialed and really fitting, it helps the readability. 10:13 I think that's a good way to go, and that's been working for me pretty well. So the rotating ads are really just to keep it fresh- Yeah... not getting the same every time. Yeah. Yeah. 10:23 That, that's-- I'm at that point now where I'm thinking, like I said, about n- I guess 19 or 20 editions in, and although the format, I think, is really clean, I've gotten some good feedback. 10:34 I try to keep it super simple. And I'm talking about sales a lot. So it's a little different than more editorial type. There might be different graphics or I'm splitting sections up or what have you. 10:44 I've tried to think about, like, how do I... Yeah, how do I maybe incorporate some new designs or new things in here? To just to, yeah, just to... 10:51 I like the idea of the delight people, because I think people do get stagnant of the same thing. Yeah. 10:59 I also think newsletters are just boring, and I feel like there are easy ways to wake people up a little bit and be like, "Oh, okay. This isn't just something that's trying to sell me something. 11:08 It's trying to teach me something. It's trying to entertain me. It's trying to make it fun. It's trying to make it conversational." And for me, at least, that's what I think about. 11:17 'Cause honestly, I subscribe to a lot of newsletters. I've unsubscribed to a lot of newsletters. I've read some great ones. There are probably only a hand few that I make dedicated time to read each week. 11:28 And I try to think about what is gonna make someone on my email list make this one of their newsletters that they have to read each week. What are those couple? You wanna call 'em out? 11:37 [lips smack] James Clear, the 3-2-1 Newsletter. I know it's cliché, but some of his questions are just, man, they're just biting, just straight to the soul. They're just so good. Yep. 11:48 The Published Press, Published Press by Colin and Samir. Love their newsletter. Ironically, I've been reading this newsletter called Laid Off, and it's people sharing their experiences being laid off. But it's like, 12:03 I don't know, just the way she's able to get people to have really vulnerable conversations after something that is Arguably not a great experience is really interesting. Okay. 12:12 And so maybe I'm just fascinated with this phenomenon of [laughs] like people talking about a really, probably one of the hardest days you'll ever go through in your professional career, especially a lot of the journalists that I've been on lately. 12:23 Journalists Pay Themselves, also a great newsletter by Lex Roman. I've really been enjoying that. I'm not a journalist, but I just appreciate their approach to talking about 12:34 getting paid for your writing and bringing journalistic rigor to creator-led newsletters. I think that's really cool. Yeah. And the last one is probably The Case, and it's, it's on Substack, 12:48 and it's basically the writer, she breaks down like basically like the case for brand and like how brand is so integral to an organization or a company's success, and she breaks down different brands. 12:59 Like I recently read her big one on Tracksmith. That was really good. She just writes really incredible stuff. I love like really well-researched, nerdy, factual, entertaining, stuff like that. So- Yeah... 13:12 that's what I've been reading lately. Okay. Yeah. I, I definitely like James Clear. I love when that shows up in my inbox. Yeah. That's a good one. It ju- it is because it's so short. 13:19 It's probably why I love reading Seth Godin's blog. I tried his. It comes every day. [laughs] But what I do like is it's short writing. Yeah. And now I don't read every one. 13:32 I, I'll d- that's something, that's a whole nother conversation. I won't even- [laughs]... productivity. 13:37 But, but yeah, so anyways, like a Seth Godin is something, he has some interesting ways of thinking about things, which I enjoy, so. 13:44 One of my favorite things about both Seth Godin and James Clear's newsletters is they're arguably very short, but they have probably written more words than either of us combined will ever write in a lifetime on some level. 13:57 Seth Godin's written so many books over his career, it's almost comical how short his da- it's almost like he's letting us into his daily writing habit a little bit. 14:08 Because, and he'll even admit to this, he'll be like, "Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't, but it's just whatever I have to say that day is what you're gonna get." Yeah. 14:15 But then James Clear, I think when I was doing a deep dive on his newsletter, his is written almost not like mine, but like it was written long form. 14:23 It wasn't always this short kind of three ideas, two quotes, one question. It was like this long form thing. 14:30 And it just reminds me like, yeah, maybe someday I'll get to this highly tactical, short form newsletter, but in terms of audience acquisition and audience loyalty, like the long form is what gets people to understand your voice and your personality and to really come to grow affinity for you as a writer. 14:49 So. Yeah. I think it is finding what's best for you. What's funny is, and I don't even call it a newsletter, I call it a blog, and maybe they're one in the same, but like I did for, 14:59 gosh, I probably wrote 500 of them three times a week for the last four years. Now I've hit a pause the last three months, almost four months, purely because of, okay, I'm gonna take a pause. 15:08 I've been writing this for four years and what have you. But it was, I'll call it Seth Godin-esque, like short form, you can read in probably under two minutes, that type of approach. 15:18 And I had a small group of people that were on that list. 15:21 But like I said, when I said, "All right, I'm gonna do a newsletter," it really, the sales stuff, just 'cause I'm doing a lot of sales coaching, like that seemed more just the tactical side. 15:30 And the writing is, I'll keep doing the blog, but those are like for LinkedIn posts and other stuff like that. 15:34 I just, that's my personal, almost my personal journal I share with the world that I'll, I'll turn into a book at some point. But I, so I think the, what we're circling around is just do it how you wanna do it. Yeah. 15:46 Don't follow a script because Seth does it this way, I have to do it this way. It's what do you feel compelled? And I think you've probably done this through your, 15:54 what you said almost a year and a half or so, and at least what I found out is you're gonna have some people that like it and some people that don't. Yeah. And it is what it is. 16:04 Like, you're not gonna have everyone like you, so just keep writing to the people that do and write what's in your heart, and ultimately you'll find your audience and your path. Yeah. 16:13 Honestly, something that I think is interesting, I feel like it's sometimes one of the first questions people ask me is about churn, like how much churn do I have per send or per month or whatever, and I'm like, "Dude, it's like less than 1%." 16:27 It's not even something I think about. It's not something that hurts my feelings. It's not something that keeps me up at night. Like, the growth has been pretty steady. 16:35 As long as you're consistent, I feel like it's been pretty steady for me, so it's not even something that like I think about. And the people that are leaving, they're like weeding themselves out. 16:44 They're not helping your open rates. They're not clicking. Yeah. They don't care. So like they might as well leave. Exactly. You might as well have them off. 16:50 If they're not the right people, they're not the right audience, who cares if you have a few unsubscribe. Let's get the right people in the room. Yeah. 16:57 How do you, going to growth, like what, to give me an idea of where you're at right now subscriber-wise. 17:02 I think when I last looked, we were one away from 1,200 on Please Hustle Responsibly, and we're at about 170 on Melanin MVP. Right. But Melanin MVP is the baby. We're still learning how to grow and market that one. 17:17 How did you start with a list with Please Hustle Responsibly or was that like zero? They both started from scratch. Yeah. So what do you think's been the biggest growth engine to get new subscribers? 17:30 Started Melanin MVP on Substack. So I did have a few recommendations on that platform before I moved to Beehiiv. So recommendations both on Substack and Beehiiv play a role for me. 17:43 LinkedIn for acquisition plays a role for me, especially with Please Hustle Responsibly. Threads plays a big role for me with Melanin MVP. There's just a big women's sports community on there. 17:56 And then the last of it is probably just like events, networking, podcast guesting, probably that last one third of our new subscriber acquisition. 18:08 How much are you, like when you're on LinkedIn- I'll, uh, let's say, I don't know how often you're posting now. Is it once a day or a couple times a day, a couple times- It used to be daily. 18:18 I was daily for almost four years- Okay... on LinkedIn, but I've been, like, leaning off of that. 18:23 I'm like, okay, like I think it's time to lean more into, like, our long form channels, the podcast, the newsletter, YouTube type deal. 18:30 When you're posting on LinkedIn then, are you, like every other post you're recommending the newsletter? Or is it just you're hoping people click the link in your profile to get there? Like, how do you... 18:40 I don't even know if you can... I guess you can maybe tag those links, but. So whenever I schedule posts that 18:47 9 times out of 10 are relevant, I have on my scheduler, it allows me to add a first comment when I'm scheduling a post, and I just say something along the lines of, "If you enjoy this post, you'll love my newsletter. 18:59 Read and subscribe here," and I'll leave a link, and that's done numbers. DMs, jumping into people's DMs on LinkedIn, that's done really well. 19:08 People who engage frequently, people who are in a similar industry, they respond pretty well, both to Melon and MVP and Police Also Responsibly. 19:15 If there is a way for me to automate it, which I'm sure there is by now, it's 2025, and AI has taken over our lives. 19:21 I'm sure there's a way for me to automate outreach via LinkedIn DMs, and that's something I might look into. I think that would, to me, be worth the paid acquisition, I think. 19:30 Yeah, the only thing I'd be careful of from what I've understood with LinkedIn, is they are cracking down big time on tools that are tapping into their API. They freaking hate creators. It's the weirdest thing. 19:43 It is the weirdest thing to me. Like LinkedIn, honestly, when you think about it, it is one of the few more established social media brands. 19:51 So not counting Threads, not counting Blue Sky, not counting Mastodon, things like that, that is relatively unscathed in terms of like reputation. Like, the CEO of LinkedIn isn't on a podcast every other week, right? 20:04 So people, they either use it to get jobs or they're using it as a creative. They're writing every day. 20:09 They're trying to build a personal brand on LinkedIn, and I just don't under- It's almost like they want people to use LinkedIn more, but then they don't actually wanna give them the tools that they need to use it successfully as a social platform. 20:23 It's very strange. I don't like it, but I use it. [laughs] The devil's advocate, I guess, side of it is because there's, at least what I see, there's so many bots on there. There's so many AI comments. There's so many... 20:37 There are a lot of people that are automating in the DMs, and that, I guess that puts a, what, I guess a black eye on the brand of LinkedIn. 20:47 That could be the only reason that I think that if they can tap that out or tap that down and let people create on the platform, like they should build in... Obviously, you can use the scheduler there. It's okay. 20:59 It's not, it's not horrible, but it's okay. It's better than it was. That's at least helpful. They have to do something about the DMs and the whole messaging platform, just. I'll be honest. 21:09 So the other maybe counter- counterpart to this, and this is just my opinion, a lot of the spammy DMs I get are for people who subscribe to LinkedIn whatever mail. So they're paying for LinkedIn Premium- Got it... 21:23 to be able to send you InMail if they're not connected to you. So that's one thing. I don't like that, but they're paying for it. They have a right to send me that. 21:30 It's, at the end of the day, I think it's fine, and in terms of people using AI comments, that is something that LinkedIn is promoting. 21:37 They're making it easy for you to click on AI suggested responses to your post and move on about your day, and I've gotten a couple of them. Do they suck? Yes. But at the end of the day, it's not a bot. 21:48 It's a person who's choosing to engage with me this way, which is disingenuine. It's not thoughtful. 21:55 It's not gaining them anything, because I don't want anything to do with them if I feel like they haven't actually read the post and said something meaningful. Yeah. 22:03 So again, I think the way that LinkedIn is trying to integrate 22:08 AI and automation into their platform and encourage people to pay for premium subscriptions, whether that's they're a job seeker or they're a hiring manager or whatever the case may be, all the reasons people use their different premium products, 22:25 they aren't really meant for creators. And if LinkedIn, again, like to your point, they added a scheduler. It's trash compared to what's out there. Great for them, but really behind the curve, if we're being honest. 22:36 If they want to create a premium, LinkedIn premium for creators, they're like three years too late, five years too late, seven years too late, and I just don't see them headed in the right direction in terms of restricting the tools that are actively trying to give creators the tools to use the platform the way that they want. 22:54 Yeah. Well, which is more power to creating your own thing and having, figuring out how do you get people on your newsletter signups and, and then own that audience. That's always been a big thing. 23:06 I wish I, again, hindsight, I wish I thought about that five years ago or six years ago, especially when I started the podcast in 2017. I never really thought about owning an audience and building that. 23:17 If I did, I would've done it totally different. It is what it is. I'm here now. No use in to cry over spilled milk, but yeah, I think there's an opportunity to really figure out, okay, how do I use LinkedIn? How do I use 23:29 X or how do I use these other platforms to get people to, to, to subscribe? 23:33 And then hopefully from there, that's the big thing I at least think about, like whether it's James Clear or like even I love reading Justin Welsh's Saturday Solopreneur. I don't know if you read that. Yeah, I do. Yeah. 23:45 Does a good job there. Amanda Goetz, I've been reading her. I like her Life's a Game newsletter out on Thursdays. But people like that, again, good writing. It's, ah, it's a good thought. I even listen to Alex Hormozi. 23:57 Yeah. He has his like Mosey Minute. It's like literally a quick tip, but I'm like, "Okay, that's, that's thoughtful." I'm like, "Ah." Again, my thing is I... You don't have to hit a home run every time, 24:08 and if people trust you, "Okay, that's interesting. Okay, move on." Yeah. 24:12 And I think, so I think the whole point where I'm getting at is if you could figure out that way of trusting people and giving good insight, they're gonna share it with others. 24:20 They're gonna start letting other people know about it. Now, I'm not at that point yet. I've had good responses, like people email me like, "Oh, Brian, this was great," or whatever. 24:27 I haven't seen a ton of people post it, "Oh, you gotta check out Brian's newsletter stuff." That's fine. It'll get there maybe, but that's the hope if I put out good enough content. Yeah. 24:36 I would say this year we've started to get into the people sharing for us. You know, that's also another reason I've been, like, laying off of LinkedIn. Mm-hmm. 24:46 Because what I'm also seeing, it's like when people share things that they're excited about that I've written, they get more engagement than me sharing the article itself. 24:54 So I'm like, okay, maybe I should just try to again, like, focus on the words and overindex on things that people want to share, versus, like, me continuing to pour in time. 25:04 Like, once I hit $10,000 on LinkedIn, I just stopped caring. Like, follower count, like, it's a vanity metric on LinkedIn as far as I'm concerned. I've like... Right? Like, it's more about conversion now. 25:16 Like, how can I get these 10,000 people to, like, be interested in my long form stuff? And I'm just seeing that, like, shareable content is, like, the way to go. Yeah. So. Do you think about that when you're writing? 25:29 Like to, oh, can I... Is there this certain section or this nugget, this might be really cool or? No, just the whole piece. Just, like, writing the best piece that I can at any time. 25:39 I think that's the, I think that's the right way to go. Again, you're not gonna hit home runs all the time. Yeah. But if you're doing it... And that's, and this is why it's so important to actually write your own stuff. 25:48 I know there's a lot of people promoting like, "Oh, use AI and write the newsletter in five minutes." It's, yeah, but what do you... It goes back to the goal. Like, what's the goal of the newsletter? 25:57 If I'm gonna have people, like, wanna use me for sales coaching or for other stuff, I want them to be like, "Oh, this is Brian's voice. This is actually who he is." Not some, you know, ChatGPT generated content. 26:09 I don't know. I'm assuming you agree with that as well. [chuckles] Yeah. I've been seeing this term called, like, AI slop, which I think is hilarious. What is it? AI slop. 26:20 That's what people have been calling, like, AI writing. Okay. 26:23 I don't know how much I've actually read of AI, like, written content, and I don't know if we'll ever really know as a society how much of this is, like, AI generated. 26:33 But so far, and in terms of when I write, when I see people in person, because I do try to go to in-person events for creators and business owners and stuff, when people are walking up to me and they're, like, quoting things to me that I've said, I need to be able to recognize what in the world they're talking about. 26:49 [chuckles] Yeah. So it's like that to me is important. 26:52 If you're not writing it, then you're not gonna be able to, like, really form that connection with people that makes them walk up to you and be like, "Oh, I remember you, when you wrote this and I really loved it." 27:03 You're just gonna be looking at them crazy and it's like, it just diminishes that, that relationship so quickly. I just don't think it's worth it at all. Yeah. I think it's helped. There... 27:12 Like, I, I use, like, Hemingway App. Are you familiar with that? I've heard of it, but I've never used it though. One, because I'm not a... I like to write. 27:22 I would not say I'm a great, like, prose writer, whatever they call it these days. 27:27 So, like, a Hemingway App is really helpful where I'll put my newsletter, like my completed newsletter, and it'll help me think about, ah, I should simplify this sentence here, or maybe this is, again, too long of a paragraph there and split it up. 27:39 And it just gets me thinking about writing way more. It's almost like a, an education on the fly. Yeah. So I think those tools are helpful to... Again, it's, like AI in general, I believe, is helpful 27:51 if you use it in the way that's supportive, and not just for you to go put your feet up on the beach and let it do everything for you. We might get to that point at some point, but- Or, so two things here. 28:03 On your show, you actually had David Perell on your show. I did, yeah. I- Awesome dude... love his podcast, How I Write. Oh, yeah. 28:12 I feel like that to me is something I started listening to once I started writing the newsletter- Yeah... 28:17 among other things, and it's just been so helpful, like, in terms of helping me think about, like, how to become a better writer. 28:24 Um, and then the other thing I wanna say too about AI, so I do want to caveat that I do use AI in my workflow, which is Chatright right now. I've used it to help me generate outlines sometimes if I'm stuck. 28:36 I'm like, "Okay, this is what I wanna write about. These are the things I wanna include, but I want it to flow well. Can you give me an outline that I can go by?" 28:43 I'll write something in Notion, and I'll just prompt Notion AI and be like, "Hey, what would you add? What would you take away to make this better?" Mm-hmm. So just using it in that way I think is really helpful too. 28:54 It's almost like a, I don't know, maybe a third party kind of editor taking a look at your work, which I think is really cool. So I do use it in that way. Yeah. The whole goal is, okay, how do you get more concise maybe? 29:07 How do you make the format better? It just makes it better for the reader. I'll be the first to admit, I'm not a... 29:13 I was never an A+ English student in school, so I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna attempt to be like, "I'm a copywriter. I do this all day, every day." I'm not. So I need to learn how to... 29:23 The thing is, I think those tools have really helped me actually. Mm-hmm. 29:26 Like the more I use like a Hemingway App or even Grammarly, think about how it like autocorrects on your text message in, on a, an Apple or whatever. It's helped me be thoughtful the next time around about... 29:38 I'll even think, like, when I'm writing, like, a blog post now, I might be like, "Ah, that's a run-on sentence. Let me split it up." So I, I'm not using Hemingway App for that. 29:46 That's just my thinking because I've used it. So it's a, again, it's a helpful tool to make me a better writer in the long for- or the long run. Yeah. 29:54 Grammarly definitely has helped, but Grammarly definitely is not used to me writing, like, in my own voice. There are certain grammatical mistakes that I'm perfectly fine making because they sound more like me. Right. 30:08 And again, uh, just AI just isn't there where it can, like, truly understand, like, voice and dialect and those type of things yet. Yeah. How, w- well, I wanna talk, we talked about growth a little bit. 30:20 What about metrics? Do you track metrics? Do you think about those? I am maniacal. I really am trying to be better about it. It's probably better for my health if I'm not as maniacal as I am, but whatever. 30:32 You don't get better if you don't... Of 2% crazy about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. 2% obsessed. 10% obsessed. So for me, 30:40 for emails, I try to look at, like, my stats for the first 12 hours, the first 24 hours, and then the first 72. 30:48 That's mostly open rate and click-through rate for those three different timeframes, just to see, like, how we're trending on an article. Mm. 30:55 And then in terms of maybe three days to one week out, I'll look at our total opens. 31:01 So what I've learned just in talking with people that read my newsletter is because it is not a shorter newsletter, like a James Clear or a Seth Godin newsletter, they like to take the time to read it. So sometimes... 31:13 And that's another reason I started posting on Saturdays, 'cause some people tell me, "When you post on Thursdays, I wait till Saturday morning when I'm having a slow morning, and I'll read it like I'm reading the newspaper with my breakfast." 31:24 So I'm like, okay, there's some people that, like, see my newsletter, they know it's a longer read, so they'll save it for later. Yeah. 31:30 So that's why I try to look at, like, the first 72, 'cause that kinda tells me, okay, who's gone back and taken a moment to read this? 31:37 And I think that's probably true for a lot of the longer newsletters, is people may not, like, the first one hour is probably not the best indication. 31:44 They're probably waiting till they have a minute to really sit down and engage with whatever it is you're writing. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, 'cause I think I'm similar. Mine's a longer form. 31:54 I- mine goes out on Sunday morning. Okay. My whole point, again, being around sales, is like, all right, let them... I- they get a tip to walk into the week with- Mm... 32:02 to think about as they're thinking about their business going into Monday. I agree with you. I think the open rate is skewed, though. So here's something interesting. I just was going down this rabbit hole yesterday. 32:13 Like, with Beehiiv on, like, click-throughs, like regular click-throughs versus verified. Are you familiar with this? Have you done that before? Yeah. I've looked at it, yeah. 32:22 [laughs] So I, yeah, 'cause I didn't realize, like, some of these tools, I don't... 32:27 Like HubSpots or whatever type tools, it'll technically count as an open, but it won't, like, verify the email, or they can actually do a click-through to verify, like, the email is correct. 32:39 So it's actually not, quote-unquote, "verified" in Beehiiv. So, like, I had... 32:44 I was looking at, like, this, this, my last post, and I think I had 15 click-through, like clicks through it, but, like, only four were verified. So I'm like, does that mean... I'm still figuring out. 32:55 Maybe you have the answer. I'm like, does that mean the other 12 aren't humans? Or does that just mean that you can't verify how the actual click happened? You know? That's a great question. I have no idea. 33:06 [laughs] I have no idea. 'Cause I was trying to figure out, like... So this last issue was the first time I used a survey. Have you done surveys? I have. Not super successfully, but I've done them before. 33:18 [laughs] I've... Well, you know what I was thinking? I- I'd just been thinking about this in the last week, like, how do I keep getting better? How do I get better at this newsletter thing and see where I can go? 33:25 So I said, all right, let me look at some of the newsletters that I read. And, and actually, I started reading this, The Neuron. Are you familiar with this one? Mm-mm. It's an AI. 33:34 They- it comes out daily, so it's all about AI. Really cool. I can't remember the guys' names to... But anyways, yeah, people can search The Neuron. Anyways, but, like, at the bottom of their newsletter, 33:46 they have a, it's just a survey, and it's like, basically, how are you doing? And they have five star, three star, one star, and five star is like, whatever. And I changed it to my liking, but I was like... 33:56 So my last newsletter was like, five star says, whatever. This is awesome. I learned something new. Three star is, good, not great. And then one star is, you could do better, Brian, or not your best effort, Brian. 34:06 So I'm thinking, like, I had a couple pe- and again, I'm trying not to be, like, self-conscious about it, but I had five or six people, like, click the five, and then, like, I had two click the one. 34:15 [laughs] And I'm like, okay, one, I can't see who the people are, but my, now my thing is, okay, but 34:22 if they're not verified, how do I know if they're verified clicks or if they're just clicks from, like, these bots or something? It's just got me playing my head. I'm like... 34:31 I would say the polls are probably verified [laughs] because you can also look, like, if you're scrolling down, you can look to see what people have clicked, like the links they've clicked, and if there are polls. 34:43 So if the number of verified poll numbers matches with the votes, then they're probably- Yeah... like, real people. It is a poll. I use survey, but yes, the poll. Yeah. I guess the poll or whatever. 34:52 I've done those a couple of times. Mostly when I'm trying something new. So when I first did the first audio newsletter, I was just like, let me just see how people are feeling. Do we like it? Do we not like it? Yeah. 35:01 Do you wanna? Like, should I try it again? 35:03 And I was also surprised, and this is, I don't know if anybody from Beehiiv is gonna listen to this, but if you are, one thing that I find that's interesting is not only can people vote on a poll, but they can leave a comment after they vote. 35:13 But you can't respond to that comment- Yeah... as, like, the writer. Yeah. So you have to go back and, like, email that person [laughs] to find them and be like, "Hey, thank you for this comment," or whatever. 35:23 So, like, that would be nice if you're gonna start a conversation. Like- That's-... let me keep it going somehow. That's a great, yeah, that's a great point, is how do you respond to that? 35:31 And 'cause it's the same as if someone, I guess, in like a Google review made a comment- Yeah... on the, like, the, the owner, they could reply to that comment and say, "Hey," and it shows verified and whatever. 35:43 "Hey, why... Tell me more about experience, whatever. Let's catch up." Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good point. I haven't really dove into the surveys or polls too much. 35:53 Like I said, literally this first one. But I'm just gonna keep it at the bottom of my newsletter. Yeah. And I'm gonna see for a few issues. 35:59 Obviously, the fact that I had whatever it was, eight, I don't know, I didn't even, I didn't check in the last day. Maybe it's closer to 10 or more now. People that actually click it. That's okay. 36:08 'Cause I changed my whole footer that I had in the prior 18 issues. Mm. I changed my footer up. I used to just have, "Hey, if you want some more sales help," I had a couple links, or, "Hey," a couple, like-... 36:18 written stuff and I said, "You know what? I'm gonna, again, I'm gonna learn from others," and I put like a picture and I put just a little write-up there, and then I had the poll. 36:25 Seemed to get more of a response from that. So- Okay... I guess that's a thing of keep trying, keep testing- Okay... keep practicing. Okay. I might tr- use that more then. I might make a little template for that. 36:35 We'll see. Yeah. All right. It was actually super simple to add the poll. Yeah. Very simple. But now I can just pull it into any one. 36:41 I have, like I said, I haven't done what, as far as you've gone, where like having multiple templates and... So that's something I gotta figure out is do I just wanna do that on the fly when I create each one, 36:52 or do I actually wanna have templates that are specific? 36:54 But again, my content is more, it's not like a written editorial one, so it just, every issue's gonna be a little different based on if I'm doing a screenshot or if it's sectioned off or whatever. 37:06 That kinda changed the look and the feel of it anyway. So talk to me a little bit more about your newsletter. 37:10 You said you've been writing it for, this version of it, the last three months, which is different from what you've been doing previously. 37:17 Talk to me about how you settled on this kind of style and premise for the newsletter, and like what your goals are with the newsletter now. Yeah. 37:25 So the blog that I was mentioning earlier is just my written, my like online diary, if you will. This newsletter was sparked around starting the sales coaching business, really working with like B2B founders. 37:38 And I said, "I wanna put a new..." There's a lot of information I have, 37:43 and instead of just writing it on LinkedIn and sometimes it goes into a void out there, let me own the, let me own the audience and let me put it on there. I think there's some really good content I can share. 37:52 And a lot of things I've learned from coaching different folks, things come up in conversation. I'm like, "God, let's turn this into a newsletter." So I committed, so last December, 2024, I committed. I said, "All right. 38:03 I'm gonna start this newsletter and I'm gonna write 52 issues in 2025, every week for 2025, and then I'm gonna see how I feel at the end of it." 38:14 So this is the thing I always talk with my whole Just Get Started is my kinda mission. That's m- that's my trademark saying everything. 38:20 It's, my thing is you don't have to do it for five or 10 years, like we were talking about the podcast. 38:24 Like, but my thing was, all right, I'm gonna do it for 52 weeks, 'cause I know for a fact doing it for five weeks would do nothing, right? Mm-hmm. It's so early. But I said, let me give myself the whole year. 38:36 I'm gonna learn how to write. I'm gonna learn how do I feel when people react to it, what is the reaction to it, et cetera, et cetera. At the end of the day, I'm gonna have so much content 38:46 to utilize for other things, for courses, for whatever, just for my own kinda liking. So I'm like, it's a win-win, and obviously I'm helping people with this 'cause I get some good responses. 38:55 I feel like people can really take it. I simplify it. So yeah, I just decided to start. I took a... Do you know Dickie Bush and Nick Cole? Yeah. I took their, they had a course. 39:05 So I took that, I think it was, I guess end of November and in December, which by the way, this is an aside, but like the initial title for the newsletter was gonna be like One Simple Sales Skill or something like that. 39:20 Yeah, clever. But their big thing is do you wanna be clear or do you wanna be clever? Yeah. And their thing is be clear when you can be. 39:29 So I said, okay, I'm doing, I wanna talk about skills 'cause I think that's the most important thing for sales, is to learn skills that you can build upon, and I'm doing this for founders. 39:39 So that's where I noodled on a bunch of stuff and I came up with Sales Skills for Founders. Yeah. And I said, okay, that's as clear as, I don't know if you can get much clearer than that. 39:47 So anyways, that's what I roll with and that's the name of the newsletter. Nice. Yeah, I've definitely learned that clear over clever lesson pretty hard a couple times. Yeah. Yeah. 39:57 [laughs] I think we, we trick ourselves because sometimes we get caught with the clever. We're like, "Oh, that's cool." But it's like, what's the, again, what's the consistent thing over and over again? 40:08 That's why I was like, I want people when they... Because my thing was like, not that I don't wanna help someone that's like a sales rep at a company. Sure, they can get value out of my newsletter, 40:17 but they're not really who I'm trying to sell my higher ticket items to, my sales coaching and what have you, and my sales call roasts. Although technically, I guess they could. 40:26 They would be more of that's more the exception, not the rule. Correct. So that's why I said I really want the word founder in the title, and that's how I crafted it. So yeah, like I said, it's been 20, uh, 20 issues. 40:37 Been pretty solid so far. I did, I'll, one more thing because we haven't talked about like Beehiiv Boosts. Yeah. I did try that. I may give it one more chance because I've learned a little bit. 40:51 So one, what I've learned is, one, you can get a ton of new subscribers quickly if you really want. Oh. Now, are they good subscribers? I'm still figuring that out. 41:01 Now, so Beehiiv says they have this verification process. We'll see. So I've had, like I, right currently I have 160 subscribers. Yeah, not bad. I think I had 30, 41:17 yeah, maybe 30 or 35 when I started at the, I think it was the beginning of March, I started to do Beehiiv Boosts. So in the last not even two months, I've gotten like 130 subscri- new subscribers, verified subscribers. 41:31 Okay. They, it... I don't know if this will be helpful for anyone. I'd recommend just going and, and s- look at this, but like the total number of subscribers that I've gotten 41:41 from doing Beehiiv Boosts for literally two months, and I invested $300, was, I think it ended up being like, it was like 600 subscribers total. Wow. 41:54 But after verification, it only shook out to be about maybe 20% of that. About a- Ouch... about 100, 120. Which is good because you only pay for the verified subscribers, which is good. 42:07 So people can't game, they can't have some email farm of [laughs] they have 50,000 emails. I'm sure people tried to do that. So I've done that. I tried it. I put $300 in. I did 250 per... So if you, if your newsletter- 42:23 Use the boost and you got one verified, you'd get $2.50 for it, is, is how I did it. Which is I think average of what a lot of creators will utilize. I may do it again because what I made the mistake of... 42:37 Eh, we'll see if it's a mistake, but I tried to, I went to, there was like a couple big... You get people that were like, "Oh, hey Brian, I'd love to boost your whatever." Some of these have 50, 100,000 subscribers plus. 42:48 Are those the best newsletters? I don't know. It seemed like it fit. So I'm still determining are those people gonna actually stick with the newsletter? Are they gonna buy stuff in the future? I'm not sure exactly. 42:58 My thing is I'm gonna, I'm gonna try it again, and I'm gonna do another 300, but I'm gonna only pick smaller newsletters. Mm-hmm. Because I want, like a newsletter like yours, you have, what did you say? 43:10 1,200 subscribers or something. Yeah. But if they're engaged, although I might only get a few of 'em, it might only trickle in over time, they might be more qualified. Yeah. 43:22 Versus, I don't know, these people that have 100,000, 200,000 subscribers, I don't know if those are... Who are those people? 43:28 So that's something I'm figuring out, but I'll probably try it one more time, 'cause I don't mind, I don't mind paying a few dollars to try something now. It's, I've changed my viewpoint on that. 43:37 Again, I said I've learned a lot since the early days of the podcast where I should've invested more dollars into trying ads or trying to pay for courses or whatever. 43:46 Maybe even trying to pay for help to get it out there more in the world with my, the time availability. Now I'm starting to do some of that. Yeah. No, that's good to hear. 43:54 I think for 2026, I think paid acquisition is something I'm gonna play around with more. Maybe even towards the end of this year. 44:03 I know I wanna try some paid ads for the podcast, but doing some paid acquisition in Beehiiv, which makes it really convenient I think is probably gonna be something would definitely wanna try. 44:12 But one thing I really wanted to, one reason I wanted to wait, I was like, okay, what's gonna be the cost benefit of this, right? Like, how much is it realistic for me to make in one year off of Beehiiv ads? 44:24 And then whatever I make for that for this first year, I'm just gonna reinvest into paid acquisition for next year. So that's the goal right now. So we'll see. It's been, 44:35 I would say even at 1,200, like I thought once I hit 1,000 subscribers, I was really gonna be like off to the races and getting a lot of ads and ad requests and stuff. That didn't really happen. 44:45 [laughs] It's still been a, I would say a fairly slow go in terms of making money from ads. 44:50 But I'm hoping as we continue to grow and we're growing at a really good pace, like towards the end of the year, we'll be looking really good in terms of ad revenue, so that's something we can start to- Yeah... 45:00 really reinvest back into paid acquisition. Are you going out and actively trying to get those sponsors, or you're just using like their ad network? We are now, but when I first started I wasn't. 45:09 I was just using their ad network. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause that's something, especially even with 1,200, if you have an engaged audience- Yeah, we're pretty up there. 45:18 We're pretty up there I would say, open rate and engagement and everything, so. Yeah. We feel pretty good about it. What, what is your goal with the newsletter? 45:25 Is it, like I said, for me it's, hey, I have these higher ticket like one-on-one coaching and stuff is the, the end goal from a business side. I- is that similar to you or do you have other goals? 45:35 If people were to engage and buy something from your business, what would that be? Yeah, so right now I'm actually working on our first signature product. It's called Community OS, which is Community Operating System. 45:47 So it makes sense we're talking about this now. 45:49 But just as m- more I learn about it, the more I talk about it, the more I realize, okay, like I have a unique perspective that I can bring to this, and it still feels relatively early in the marketing space for a conversation around community and building community both offline and in person. 46:05 So I feel like I could really fill a space there with a signature product about that. So that's definitely coming. I think that's a goal for sure to have the newsletter be a funnel for that product. 46:16 Definitely wanna do some more high ticket coaching. I've been told by a couple people that, one, I don't talk about that enough. I give away too much for free. 46:24 And then on the other half, that I would be selling it for too low. So definitely gonna try some high ticket coaching. 46:30 I think that I've consulted enough, mentored enough for, for certain amounts of money that I could justify my expertise for high ticket coaching, so. Who would be your ideal client or a coach if you're coaching someone? 46:43 Ideal client would be, I would say probably a medium sized business, so they probably already have an internal marketing team. Mm-hmm. So probably a team of in-house creators. 46:51 They just may not be familiar with how to leverage content to grow brand affinity. So a good example of this would actually be, like for example, the city of Fayetteville, their tourism- Yeah... tourism board. 47:03 Like relatively decent sized city in North Carolina. One of the biggest places per capita for Black-owned businesses. But their tourism, dead on social media. 47:14 They don't really understand how to use video and how to leverage like their online presence to get people to events and to come visit Fayetteville, to come to baseball games, to come explore the area. 47:24 So like how do you use this plethora of places where you can go and do all the things, right? And you have people in place to create content that can do that. 47:33 How do you walk them through how to use that to get people more engaged online? And then not only get them engaged on social media, but like funnel that social media following into something that you own. 47:44 I think that would be like a probably a pretty decent example of that. Okay. Yeah. Fun fact, I went to college in Fayetteville, North Carolina. No way. [laughs] Yeah. 47:53 All the way from New York, came down to Fayetteville, North Carolina. Quite the experience. I'm sure. [laughs] Quite the experience as a New Yorker, so. But it was good. It definitely cultured me a little bit. 48:03 I lived right around like folks that went to or that were at Fort Bragg and stuff, so again- Yeah... a whole culture shock there. Yeah. It was good. It was good. It definitely woke me up a little bit. That's so funny. 48:15 You're like, "Can I walk somewhere? Not today I think. I like my life actually." [laughs] It's not a walkable city. That's true. That's true. I, I, we can go on for hours here. Maybe we'll do like a part two. 48:24 Anything now, what kind of a lasting thought would you share maybe about newsletters or how you're thinking about it going forward? Anything at all you'd end on? [lips smack] maybe to 48:37 not let the fact that you're not naturally a writer, if that even is a thing, um, to hold you back from starting a newsletter. 48:44 I think a lot of people think that they have to be this incredibly prolific writer with a lot of followers to start a newsletter that's meaningful and valuable and gets people engaged and responsive, and that's just simply not the case. 48:58 You can start from anywhere in your writing journey, as long as you are willing to commit to it and commit to getting better with each issue, and commit to 49:07 using your voice as authentically as you can to share what it is that... And I think that is more important than anything. So many, you know, like 49:14 I tried to start a newsletter twice before I really was able to get consistent with Please Hustle Responsibly. And I failed both times because I didn't really think about email, like, as a destination. 49:26 Like, email is where it happens. Email isn't the gateway to something else happening. 49:30 And I think once I reframed my mind around what all an email newsletter could be, it just made it so much easier for me to conceptualize how to show up in that space. Yeah. And you make a good point, 'cause it's... 49:41 I actually had a failed newsletter too. I- it was called, I did a couple years ago, called The Sunday Starter. 49:46 [laughs] And it was around, uh, uh, it wasn't really just a podcast, but it was around, I'd just highlight different stuff to help people get started. Yeah. If I kept it going, who knows? 49:57 But I did about, I think I did 19 or 20 or 21 or... 'Cause I, it's top of mind because I'm at that point with this current newsletter. Yeah. 50:05 And, but, like this one I'm really energized about just be- because, like one, sales, I've had that as a background for a lot of years, so I know I can help people in that regard. 50:14 Not that I can't with Just Get Started, because that's a huge mission, but I felt like for whatever reason, it just wasn't the right fit the way I was writing it. So maybe I'll get back to it. 50:22 Maybe I'll just keep writing myself, blogs and stuff. So I agree with you. I think it's the whole Just Get Started mentality. Like, you only learn when you actually go through it. 50:33 So even if you try a newsletter and you're like, after 10 or 15, you're like, "Ah, I don't really like this," okay, then stop. Do something else, or stop and pivot, and say, "Maybe this format's not the best. 50:46 Maybe I wanna go more of a Ji- James Clear shorter style or so- figure it out. But I think it goes back to what's that mission? Like, where are you trying to go with it? 50:55 And if you have, okay, th- I wanna build a following offline, I wanna be able to engage with this type of person, et cetera, et cetera, then a newsletter's a great spot. You just might not have found the right formula. 51:05 It... I think that's, uh, that's so important, is just keep going. And then move, move and navigate along the path as accordingly. But you don't have to have it made up perfectly, right out of the gate. Yeah. 51:17 And I think we're also in a good space where there's so many newsletters you can take inspiration from, right? You don't have to think about, oh, I'm starting this from scratch, what do I do? 51:25 It's like there's tons of examples you can look to. Do, I think, go back, you said this r- earlier, is do it your way. 51:32 Like, I was talking to a guy I caught up with a few months ago now, and he does, like short form, like social media videos, and he does, like... 51:40 And he was thinking about starting a newsletter, and I said, "Why don't you do a..." I was like, "Here's an idea. C- your call if you wanna take it." 51:47 But I said, "If this is what you do as a living, and you're really good about these short form videos, why don't, why doesn't that become the newsletter?" 51:55 You literally have it, it's like a 30 to minute, second, 30 second to minute read, or you actually do it as a video newsletter where you do it in that form as the short, sort of, and that's the newsletter. 52:09 So when people open it up, they hit play. Maybe it takes them to YouTube or it's embedded in there, and that's your newsletter. Doesn't have to be written. It doesn't have to be long. 52:17 So anyways, I think that's, be creative about it, and tie it around your brand or what you're trying to accomplish. Yeah. 52:23 One thing that, again, we could sit here all day and maybe it could be for a part two, is like thinking about email as a visual medium. 52:30 Like, I've been trying to talk to people about, like me recording myself reading my newsletter and doing the audio newsletter, and you would think I taught them how to start a fire or something. [laughs] Yeah. 52:39 They're like, "Oh, I can do that?" I'm like, "Yeah, you can do whatever you want. Like, who cares?" They're like, "It doesn't affect the open rates?" I'm like, "Who cares about open rates? 52:46 Just freaking- Yeah, just do it... just do it. Just try it." And so when you're saying, like, "Do a video newsletter," there's somebody who's gonna be like, "I can do that?" And it's like, why not? Have fun. 52:54 I, I thought about that actually when I started this one, and I've tested a little bit. 52:59 What I was gonna do, I was gonna record it, like using Loom, and literally just walk through the newsletter and just, again, highlight my thoughts and give some insight about what I'm talking about, and put that at the top and say, "Here's the video if you wanna listen to me rant for 10 minutes, or you can read it below." 53:16 I haven't gone that far to do it. I don't know if I will or not, but again, it's just one of those things, like you gotta feel out what's best for you. And by the way, it doesn't mean I can't next this. 53:23 You'd be like, "Ah, maybe I'll go back to that idea." Yeah. To your point, maybe you try it every once in a while. Hey, this is a, this is a v- the video Daily Double here. 53:32 I'm just gonna do, I'm gonna do that [laughs] and see what happens, like you do the audio. So I think that's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Formats are meant to be broken. They're just templates. That's all. Yeah. 53:42 Have multiple. Who cares? Yeah. That's a good way to end this. [laughs] Formats are meant to be broken. I'm writing that down. [laughs] Uh, Angela, this was a lot of fun. Yeah. This is good. Let's talk about this. 53:51 We'll definitely do a part two. We'll talk maybe more podcasts and maybe an update on the newsletters, where they're at, maybe later this year, so. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Awesome. You want a shout-out? 54:00 So Please Hustle Responsibly. Yes. Please Hustle Responsibly and Melanin MVP. They are both on Beehiiv. I'll give you guys the links in the description. Perfect. Yep. Now what about you? 54:11 Same for, and your LinkedIn obviously, where you're spending- Yes... not as much time. Not as much, but I'm there if you wanna hit me up. [laughs] Cool. Um. 54:19 [upbeat music] If you've been getting value from Honey and Hustle, I need a quick favor. Would you take 30 seconds right now to leave a review? 54:29 Reviews help other people discover the show, and honestly, they help me know what's landing with you. Whether it's this episode or one from a few months ago that stuck with you, just share what made it worth your time. 54:42 You can leave a review wherever you're listening right now, and I appreciate it in advance. See you in the next episode. [upbeat music]
